Canada is apparently handing helpless prisoners ov

[tag]

So, once more I hear Canada is apparently handing helpless prisoners over to others so that they can be tortured.
And now it could, and in my opinion should, be considered a war crime or crime against humanity for them to be doing this.
Like the Americans, they are the first to complain when one of there own has the same done to them.
And we all know that it just gives the enemy ammunition, and an excuse to justify there actions.
We talk about our wonderful law system and justice and fair play and how our religion is better and how much more forgiving.
But we still have RCMP and Police and Military giving the country a black eye.
Every time we turn around there is another scandal with the RCMP or some local police force (and we talk about other countries like Mexico being corrupt with lawless police, and no justice?).
We can get on our knees and bless people like the guy Canada sent to America to be tortured, that he did not charge us with war crimes or crimes against humanity.
What the hell is going on, are we surrendering all of our humanity to Alquida?, why do we justify there actions by doing the same or worse, and why do we keep putting our people, like the guy arrested for spying in Egypt or China or were ever, in even more jeopardy than needed?.
And putting any one in prison with out a real trial or a lawyer, which brain-dead clown thought of that?
Did we have to follow the British and do to others, what they have apparently done to Irish Prisoners? (IRA).
And once more look how the British complain when they get what they dish out so freely. And a bunch of there sailors are taken prisoners.
I could be wrong but isn’t there a better way?
I find all this apparent hypocrisy very confusing. And yes we are still the better of two evils, but that is not a justification, is it?
This is just my opinion based on the little I know, but people are still allowed to have an opinion........right or has that fallen by the wayside also,
Handing a prisoner off to someone else to do the dirty work, does not release you of all your responsibility to them or for them.
America set it’s self up to be immune from being tried for any war crimes or crimes against humanity.
But its supporters were not given that luxury, that is why America doesn’t appear to care, they answer to no one, they are above all law, and there supporters are the only ones left hanging on the hook.

And what if the Alquida and the Taliban decide they want to strangle what some countries would call, “the other axis of evil” America, Canada, Briton, In there own America, Canada, Briton courts with multi million law suits and accusations of crimes against humanity.
They the Alquida and the Taliban could stand to win billions of dollars, and tie the system up for decades, with countless law suites.
All they need is money, time, and lawyers hungry for cash and fame.

And the money could come from the deep pockets of there supporting anti-American countries.
It would be in the interest of a lot of other countries to launch a legal-internal assault for billions of dollars in the American, Canadian, British courts.

The trick here is to learn from your mistakes, stop giving them ammunition.

[tag]

tag said:

So, once more I hear Canada is apparently handing helpless prisoners over to others so that they can be tortured.
And now it could, and in my opinion should, be considered a war crime or crime against humanity for them to be doing this.
Like the Americans, they are the first to complain when one of there own has the same done to them.
And we all know that it just gives the enemy ammunition, and an excuse to justify there actions.
We talk about our wonderful law system and justice and fair play and how our religion is better and how much more forgiving.
But we still have RCMP and Police and Military giving the country a black eye.
Every time we turn around there is another scandal with the RCMP or some local police force (and we talk about other countries like Mexico being corrupt with lawless police, and no justice?).
We can get on our knees and bless people like the guy Canada sent to America to be tortured, that he did not charge us with war crimes or crimes against humanity.
What the hell is going on, are we surrendering all of our humanity to Alquida?, why do we justify there actions by doing the same or worse, and why do we keep putting our people, like the guy arrested for spying in Egypt or China or were ever, in even more jeopardy than needed?.
And putting any one in prison with out a real trial or a lawyer, which brain-dead clown thought of that?
Did we have to follow the British and do to others, what they have apparently done to Irish Prisoners? (IRA).
And once more look how the British complain when they get what they dish out so freely. And a bunch of there sailors are taken prisoners.
I could be wrong but isn’t there a better way?
I find all this apparent hypocrisy very confusing. And yes we are still the better of two evils, but that is not a justification, is it?
This is just my opinion based on the little I know, but people are still allowed to have an opinion........right or has that fallen by the wayside also,
Handing a prisoner off to someone else to do the dirty work, does not release you of all your responsibility to them or for them.
America set it’s self up to be immune from being tried for any war crimes or crimes against humanity.
But its supporters were not given that luxury, that is why America doesn’t appear to care, they answer to no one, they are above all law, and there supporters are the only ones left hanging on the hook.

And what if the Alquida and the Taliban decide they want to strangle what some countries would call, “the other axis of evil” America, Canada, Briton, In there own America, Canada, Briton courts with multi million law suits and accusations of crimes against humanity.
They the Alquida and the Taliban could stand to win billions of dollars, and tie the system up for decades, with countless law suites.
All they need is money, time, and lawyers hungry for cash and fame.

And the money could come from the deep pockets of there supporting anti-American countries.
It would be in the interest of a lot of other countries to launch a legal-internal assault for billions of dollars in the American, Canadian, British courts.

The trick here is to learn from your mistakes, stop giving them ammunition.

Lets take this one step further and ask has any one even bothered to think what the enemy could now do to prisoners, with full justification (in there minds) now that we are giving them all the excuses they need. What can we say if our deepest fears happen and we see a report like this?

A British, American, or Canadian soldier is captured. It could happen right? Let’s say for the sake of argument 15 British marines get captured.
The country that captures them has charged then with being a threat, spies, terrorists, invaders, or whatever. The world breaths a sigh of relief because the country that has captured them has never tortured prisoners before. That all changes when they discover that a week ago, the prisoners were tried with out a lawyer or counsel they weren’t allowed to see the evidence against them, which their captors said they had. And now to top it all off it has been discovered that the prisoners were handed of to the Talaban or Alquida or some other country or force to be tortured. The country that was the original captors said that they had every reason to expect the prisoners would not be tortured would be treated fairly, and that there people, the original captors, were not trained or equipped to deal with prisoners.
Seven of the prisoner’s disappeared and no one knows were they went. The rest were tortured and video taped being tortured. One was even kept awake for 3 or 4 months, just like the Americans have done or been accused of doing by there enemies, That person went insane and killed himself by beating his head against his cell until he died. Just like the people in concentration camps that smashed there heads into rusty nails sticking out of walls. The survivors two of them, had had all there finger nails pulled out, and because of the torture one committed suicide two years later. His captors said they had reason (never seen) to believe the lives of there people were in danger and in a case like that what is a few finger nails.

This is of course not a real case….but could it be, if Canada, America, Briton keep trying to justify torture and holding people for years with out ever seeing a lawyer or the evidence against them?
Would you like these prisoners to have the same kind of trial that some one like Sadam had? The things I am hearing that our soldiers are being asked to do and be a part of is in my opinion wrong. Invading a country and going to war should be more than enough, but asking them to hand people over to be tortured is wrong, and does them an injustice.
And in fact it could be considered a form of torture for them.

[sasquatch]

A reality check is necessary here before going off on a tangent with baseless anti-Americanism and gross assumptions.

The very fact that these detainees, lacking uniforms or not displaying easily recognized insignia, places them outside the protection of the Geneva Accords as far as International Law. They can be legally shot on sight or summarily executed. As illegal combatants they have the legal status of pirates/bandits/brigands.

Geneva Conventions

This business of giving custody of detainees to the afghans is not a Canadian decision because this is not a Canadian operation. This is a policy matter, dictated by UN bureaucrats.

These woolly headed fools do not inhabit the real world. Prisoner treatment is a matter that has been struggled with for centuries. The Geneva Accords priority is prisoner treatment.

In WW2, ALL participants killed or neglected prisoners. Not debatable. Currently the Afghan authorities in reality are only one step up from partisans and this sort of matter is to be expected.

In Somalia, the UN took over administering the AID programme and it's security arrangements and wham----Black Hawk down. That was a UN directed operation.

Earlier, during the Russian occupation, getting the Mujahidin to take prisoners and release them to the west was a major triumph. The very notion of taking a prisoner and not killing or abusing him was totally alien. Once word got to the Russian rank and file that they could surrender in safety, our casualties dropped. The Afghans are Willey enough to see the benefit and this policy was adopted. The Russians left the Taliban moved in and savagery returned.

[tag]

Heard that Harper said something about the reports of torturing prisoners, that they (the reports/complaints) were coming from the Taliban.
And as such held no validity or something to that effect.
Well if this is true then this is my thoughts on it.

If the reports of prisoner torture are coming from the Taliban, then we should be thanking them for there cooperation in protecting human rights and starting to recognize our values.

If the reports of prisoner torture are coming from the Taliban, we should be praising GOD for the wonderful opportunity we have been given to show them that the complaint system works and that there concerns will be fully addressed with full transparency.

If the reports of prisoner torture are coming from the Taliban, we should be grateful, as this is the first and only positive communication we have had from them, this is an open door that, and we should be embracing the opportunity to talk with them, and show them we respect all peoples and prisoners rights.

I do not see this as the Taliban asking for any quarter, not by a long shot and I would not insult them by insinuating this, but it does show compassion exists in there hearts, even if only for there own people, as warriors.
We need to snap up this golden opportunity to fully investigate there concerns and fully punish in a real, neutral court of law any one responsible, if the claims are found to be true.
This is the first time, an enormous leap, in relations with the Taliban, they are actually recognizing the complaint process, and are not just killing the people they feel responsible. This could be the first step in assimilating them into our system.
We have been given an opportunity to shine by the Taliban and we need to go though that door now!
We can’t let the military brass or Harper, or the Americans, or British pass this up, or brush of and trivialize, the Taliban’s concerns of as though they were nothing.
There may come a time when we will need to talk to them again.
I could be wrong about all this, but that is the way I see it.

[sasquatch]

Any complaints/reports by the Taliban are no more than evidence of their policy of inspiring dissension in our ranks. These guys are deliberately targeting our troops with the goal of having us withdraw our commitment. There is no evidence of any civilized mentality with these monsters. Remember these guys stone women for walking alone on the street. They are indifferent to having innocent civilians victims of their IEDs.

[lurk]

tag said:

If the reports of prisoner torture are coming from the Taliban, then we should be thanking them for there cooperation in protecting human rights and starting to recognize our values.

You know...others may disagree but I think I understand your attempt at what the the rest of us think of as reason.

I think what you're saying is something like if I was to tell you you're obviously nuts, you would of course thank me for the opportunity to address your sanity issues.

And yet...somehow...why do I get the feeling that's not what's going to happen. Prove me wrong. Thank me.

[tag]

lurk said:

tag said:

If the reports of prisoner torture are coming from the Taliban, then we should be thanking them for there cooperation in protecting human rights and starting to recognize our values.

You know...others may disagree but I think I understand your attempt at what the the rest of us think of as reason.

I think what you're saying is something like if I was to tell you you're obviously nuts, you would of course thank me for the opportunity to address your sanity issues.

And yet...somehow...why do I get the feeling that's not what's going to happen. Prove me wrong. Thank me.

I understand your attempt at what the the rest of us think of as reason. But it would help if your post were less confused and disjointed. Help me help you.

[lurk]

No problem bud. I can help you out. Take your meds. Read the post again. You'll figure it out.

Basically it goes like this. Your proposal the Canadian government thank a band of lunatics (who I understand your empathy with) like the Taliban for making allegations of torture is not reasonable.

[sasquatch]

Often the difficulty is to really understand the thought process of these violent people.

In Somalia, the locals backed the warlords and would fight to the death against a well equiped moderm military. Make no doubt that it takes courage to take on helo gunship with an AK.

In their view, the US forces were invading their country to take their stuff. They considered the UN Aid Convoys moving AID to starving folk in the interior as their stuff. When the US Army outgunned them to get the convoys to the starving people, they considered this theft. In their minds, they owned this Aid stuff because it was passing through their turf.

The mentality of the Taliban is not much different.