Humans caused Global Warming is it real or is it ?

[🍁 CDN 🍁]

Well I fear us humans have had a great deal to do in changing Earths climate. Some people (politicians) have a difficult time excepting that.

[Deleted]

Where's the Global Warming when you need it !!!! -30 with wind chill , snowing blowing ~s**t freezing weather .... I need warmth !!!!!

[concernedcaine]

gopher said:

Where's the Global Warming when you need it !!!! -30 with wind chill , snowing blowing ~s**t freezing weather .... I need warmth !!!!!

;D Hi Gopher, well.......let the bells ring and the little birdies sing cause I AM HERE I AM HERE! Hummmmmmm global warming; I think it is a tad over rated. In Nova Scotia today it is 18'F here with about 5-7" of snow and a nippy wind, so if you think the iceage is going anywhere it sure is not in Nova Scotia.

Now just to add insult to injury, the Icecap in our Northern Canada is melting a twee bit but is not totally melting any more than it has melted in the past 10,000 years. Iceburgs are still being reported comming past Newfoundland to the warnings to shippers. The Warm El Ninyos have been abit prolonged but still normal for an Indian Summer.....it sure is not summer here, last week and the week before we had 0'F for about 4 days with a chillfactor that made even Yellow Knife seem warmer.

[Deleted]

Hi Gopher, well.......let the bells ring and the little birdies sing cause I AM HERE I AM HERE!

DOES THAT MEAN I NEED TO RUN !!!!
Hell-o and I hope you brought Friends with you ... hee hee
I know I know , we can all talk about the weather ...when I was little I remember snow banks up to the hydro wires , had to walk to school and both ways where up-hill .... Times change and sometimes for the best , other times not .... With all the industrialization taking place in this Country , no wonder there is more pollution , smog and so-called green-house effect...

eg. A huge factory is built , employing 1,000s of people ... Land is cleared , trees cut , farmers ousted and neighbours loose there homes ( expropriation ) ..Roads are built to accommodate the volume of traffic , more hydro lines are strung , and water/sewer mains dug.. Now where are all the workers going to live ... some choose to compute the distance , 1 person in a car on a highway 10x a/week multiply that again by a 1,000 and you get the picture ... others choose to move closer to the plant , in already existing homes or all the new that were slapped together , on the clear-cut land needed for them ...now your getting the WHOLE PICTURE , and I could go on but you can figuire the rest out ...
Grass and Trees are natures CO2 sponges , the good guys , how many are left in urban centres ... People say the air is FRESHER up north at the cottage , well DUH , look around at all the trees ....
Laws all over the world need to be tighter and inforced regardless of the country's economics ... PERIOD.... no more boo-hoo'n , I can't afford it , Bull-poop!!!!

[Deleted]

Man is it cold , I mean this is tongue-stick'n weather ... Not many batteries left on WallMart shelves , these days ... suppose to warm up by the weekend , I'll believe it when I feel it !!!!

[🍁 CDN 🍁]

How cold is it

[Deleted]

admin said:

How cold is it

It's so cold that a tree thanked a Dog , for peeing on it !!!! ;D

[🍁 CDN 🍁]

Excellent........I like it.

[Deleted]

admin said:

Excellent........I like it.

O.K. I'm responding to how cold is it , and the Ads that pop up are all on Tropical Vacations .... HOW NICE IS THAT !!!!!! I ask ?

[🍁 CDN 🍁]

gopher said:

admin said:

Excellent........I like it.

O.K. I'm responding to how cold is it , and the Ads that pop up are all on Tropical Vacations .... HOW NICE IS THAT !!!!!! I ask ?

If you open Snoopy's garlic thread the ads will pop up for garlic. The ads are tuned somehow in some way to the threads.

[concernedcaine]

gopher said:

Hi Gopher, well.......let the bells ring and the little birdies sing cause I AM HERE I AM HERE!

DOES THAT MEAN I NEED TO RUN !!!!
Hell-o and I hope you brought Friends with you ... hee hee
I know I know , we can all talk about the weather ...when I was little I remember snow banks up to the hydro wires , had to walk to school and both ways where up-hill .... Times change and sometimes for the best , other times not .... With all the industrialization taking place in this Country , no wonder there is more pollution , smog and so-called green-house effect...

eg. A huge factory is built , employing 1,000s of people ... Land is cleared , trees cut , farmers ousted and neighbours loose there homes ( expropriation ) ..Roads are built to accommodate the volume of traffic , more hydro lines are strung , and water/sewer mains dug.. Now where are all the workers going to live ... some choose to compute the distance , 1 person in a car on a highway 10x a/week multiply that again by a 1,000 and you get the picture ... others choose to move closer to the plant , in already existing homes or all the new that were slapped together , on the clear-cut land needed for them ...now your getting the WHOLE PICTURE , and I could go on but you can figuire the rest out ...
Grass and Trees are natures CO2 sponges , the good guys , how many are left in urban centres ... People say the air is FRESHER up north at the cottage , well DUH , look around at all the trees ....
Laws all over the world need to be tighter and inforced regardless of the country's economics ... PERIOD.... no more boo-hoo'n , I can't afford it , Bull-poop!!!!

I know Gopher, those times you speak of, that was when I was 6-13yrs old........I had to climb some snowdrifts to get to the old bluebird school buses too. Hummm industrialization, we got it here, people complain about such things yet they have more cars than they need and go to their jobs and earn far more than I can ever see in my lifetime.

Yet these people are first to complain that I am stealing money out of their pockets for being on welfare when those people put me here in the first place in wanting corrupted political jobs and greedily playing politics to get their beloved jobs underthetable.

Clearcutting, hummmm you should see what the Irving Clearcutting subcontracters done to forests that had been growing in a former fishing community of Baxter's Harbour, Kings County, Nova Scotia.....that was where I use to live untill 1996; now in 2007 the areas of old growth 300yrs old forest are patches of cleared sucked up dirt. Or twisted garbage trees nobody wants to harvest; that is the stark reality up there, now where I live in New Minas, Kings County, it is a little microcosim of an urban sprawl of Halifax, Nova Scotia! Housing developements, mini malls, congested traffic infested highways and people demanding more and better yet not wanting to leave their well paying jobs nor their lifestyles to let other peoples try to get jobs......I do not see this as fair......I see this as greedy.

[ladybug]

Of coarse GW is real.
Why are so many people denying it?

[Durgan]

sasquatch said:

..."Back when people were "close to nature," i.e., in pre-industrial Europe of the Middle Ages and Dark Ages, they were lucky to reach their mid-20s. As author Ayn Rand put it: "Anyone over 30 years of age today, give a silent 'Thank you' to the nearest, grimiest, sootiest smokestack you can find.""...

Funny that you should mention Ayn Rand. She has almost disappeared off the scene. I must dig up her books to see how they fit into modern society. She sure was a prolific writer and thinker.

Durgan.

[Durgan]

I will leave the Global Warming proof to the experts.

But I am glad it has become an issue. It has focused much attention on pollution. Everybody accepts that pollution is bad, very bad. So if the Global Warming is the catalyst to force reductions in pollution so be it.

I just hope the empty words "Global Warming" does not become an excuse if it is proven wrong, to go back to sleep again and ignore pollution effects.

Southern Ontario is so bad that last summer was the worse on record. Being in it often one doesn't see the effects, until travelling North of Highway 17 and actually seeing clean air.

It will be very difficult to convince the post 1945 crowd to accept some restrictions on their way of life. They have had it all with little effort compared to the depression and WW11 group.

Durgan.

[lurk]

So what do we think of this...

Baird accused of scare tactics on Kyoto

Or do we care.

Oh oops. I guess I should tell you what it's about, because the general tendency in message board threads on this subject is not to click the links.

As I understand it the Canadian environment minister is suggesting restructuring the nation's economic engine to meet the demands of something called the Kyoto accord might be expensive.

I say "something called" the Kyoto accord, because I notice that although the media loves to issue forth the name "Kyoto", they're kind of shy about telling you what it actually is, and what it requires. I had to visit Google to find out. I'd give you links, but again, who'd click em, so I'll try to tell you what I can remember.

It's this accord signed by different nations to agree to bring down emissions of something called CO2. I say "something called" CO2, because there seems to be some confusion about what exactly CO2 is. I'll clarify that for you. It's not that black smoke pollution you see. People seem to think it is, but it's not. It's this odorless, colorless, gas commercial plant growers pump into their greenhouses to help their plants grow.

Back to Kyoto though... We Canadians sent some ecology activists over there to meet with some savvy business negotiators from other countries, and apparently they all agreed this CO2 stuff was pretty terrible for some reason, and countries like Canada were pretty much responsible, so they had to pay to get rid of it.

Our green guys signed this Kyoto agreement with the business negotiators from places like China and India. China and India pay nothing. Now don't get confused here. I know China and India are the countries where you see all those pictures of the thick black smoke pollution. Again our green guys don't seem so much worried about that. It's the devil, demon gas C02 they want to get rid of. Yes CO2 is a natural gas which helps plants grow, but don't get confused by that either. It's also trapping all the heat in the planet's stratosphere, and melting the ice bergs where the polar bears like to play and frolic. This is bad. We know this is all true, because our green guys tell us so. Not just our green guys either. Even the American green guy Al Gore told us this. Remember him? He created the internet. We know that's true, because he told us so.

Back to Kyoto though. If you're Chinese, or Indian you don't have to pay anybody anything. The same is true of Brazil. Remember Brazil? That's that country where the greater chunk of the world's rain forest exists. Interesting little sidebar about rain forests - the fun thing about rain forests is they eat up CO2 and turn it into Oxygen (that's this other gas you might have heard of. It's what you breath).

OK so rain forests were eating up C02. In Brazil they were chopping the rain forest down.

Brazil had some good negotiators at Kyoto too. Brazil also pays nothing as a result of Kyoto. In fact here's the great thing about Kyoto if you happen to live in Brazil. You can chop down more rain forest (which eat up C02) faster, then grow crops to make into this stuff called ethanol. If you do that Kyoto will give you these things called credits. You can then turn around and sell those credits to countries like Canada.

Why Canada? Because our green ecology guys signed a deal with their business negotiator guys agreeing this CO2 stuff is all our fault, and the CO2 is melting all our ice bergs, and drowning all our polar bears. We don't want that.

OK so we're going to buy all these credits from countries like Brazil (which cut down rain forests, which eat up CO2). This apparently is going to somehow destroy CO2, and save our polar bears. This might seem expensive. Where is this money coming from. I don't know exactly. The people who are supposed to tell you such stuff are encouraged not to. Apparently if they do tell you stuff like that they are indulging in what's called "media spin". Media spin is this term used to describe saying anything negative about Kyoto. The media doesn't like it when you use "media spin", or saying negative stuff about Kyoto. They'll make you look real silly if you do.

I found some other interesting stuff about Kyoto (which I'd link you to, but you wouldn't click on), from people who don't mind looking silly. They'll give you "media spin", or saying negative stuff about Kyoto. Remember China and India? They pretty much continue doing what they do after Kyoto. Developing their industry. Canada however needs to stop doing so much of that. Kyoto tells us so.

OK so speaking of "media spin", or saying negative stuff about Kyoto, here's what it's all about. Here's what the Canadian environment minister said Kyoto might cost us.

# Gasoline will cost more than $1.60 a litre over the 2008-to-2012 period

# 275,000 Canadians working today will lose their jobs by 2009

# Job loss will cause unemployment rates to rise 25 per cent by 2009

Remember though this is what's called "media spin". We know that's true, because the media told us so. They don't like people who say negative stuff about Kyoto. They will call them media spinners.

[lurk]

Has the term "Skeptic" been hijacked?

It used to be if I wanted to get both sides of the issue on a global warming topic I'd search the general term first, and I'd get the mainstream pro global warming view, then I'd type in "skeptic" at the end of the search term. In this way I'd get both sides of the issue.

Now though it's like the bloggers and such have gotten wise to this technique, because they paste the word skeptic all over their sites, so if you search on pretty much any term with the the word "skeptic" at the end, all you'll get is pro global warming rhetoric.

Does anyone know of a general climate site which isn't pro AGW rhetoric? Something with a message board would be nice. So do I want anti-AGW rhetoric? Sure, why not. I listened to the one side, I don't see why I shouldn't be able to hear both sides.

[sasquatch]

Gee Lurk---you and Pinoy should publish:
"KYOTO FOR DUMMIES"
GOOD STUFF!!!!!

Finally a healthy, impartial out look. ;D

I had not encountered that but it was to be expected.

It's like the bloggers who demand links sought them out and eliminated them.

The media has taken such a one-sided posture.

The most comprehensive is the BBC "The Great Global Warming Swindle" which was free on utube but withdrawn due to an alleged copywrite. It is perhaps still possible to view this on a pay site.....I loath pay sites.

I purchased "Unstoppable Global Warming every 1500 years", Singer & Avery from Amazon, under $20 delivered.

[lurk]

Believe it or not I've actually seen the Great Global Warming Swindle. It made me want to know more. I'd like to see the Al Gore one too so I could get both sides, but no way am I paying money for it, or waiting for a torrent download. So far those seem to be the only ways to see "An Inconvenient Truth". As you said, you can see TGGWS on YouTube.

I think what I'm looking for, specifically, is a message board on climate change from the anti-AGW viewpoint. If Google doesn't work any more I need a way to get both sides of the argument. I'm thinking I could get links from a message board.

[lurk]

Well the "Chink" thing is a little much, but basically...yeah.

The information I was specifically looking for when I discovered Google no longer worked to look for such information, concerned this business of ice shelves breaking off. The pro-AGW guys make a big deal every time an shelve breaks of from the ice pack. I'd like to know more about that issue, and how bad it really is. I can't make an informed decision until I hear both sides. Does anyone know where there's info on this?

[sasquatch]

Basically the gist that I am getting is that the AGW types yell about ice breaking off the Greenland and Antarctic Ice Caps is evidence of them shrinking while it is really a sign that these ice caps are thickening and increasing in mass. As the mass increases the pressure increases---the flow velocity increases and more ice is 'calved off".

The WWF and National Geographic was trumpeting about the AGW caused Himalayan/Pamir mountain glaciers shrinking with dire consequences to surrounding populations (shortage of drinking water etc.) Researchers who were closely monitoring these glaciers reported that they were all advancing-----The WWF and National Geographic then trumpeted that this advance was caused by AGW and would have dire consequences...............

These activists report stuff getting smaller that is getting bigger----glaciers, Polar Ice Caps, Polar bear populations--------try to rewrite history----remember 2006 was supposed to be the worst year for hurricanes in History----according to the IPCC.........

[lurk]

Small point, but the IPCC didn't exactly say 2006 would be the worst hurricane season on record. They did say stuff that offered that implication though, given they were making announcements shortly after Katrina.

What they did do is perhaps even more heinous when you look at the details. There's a good article on it written from the viewpoint of Christopher Landsea, the hurricane expert the IPCC hired, then didn't listen to. I'll post a bit.

Then something went horribly wrong. Within days of this last invitation, in October, 2004, you discovered that the IPCC's Kevin Trenberth -- the very person who had invited you -- was participating in a press conference. The title of the press conference perplexed you: "Experts to warn global warming likely to continue spurring more outbreaks of intense hurricane activity." This was some kind of mistake, you were certain. You had not done any work that substantiated this claim. Nobody had.

As perplexing, none of the participants in that press conference were known for their hurricane expertise. In fact, to your knowledge, none had performed any research at all on hurricane variability, the subject of the press conference. Neither were they reporting on any new work in the field. All previous and current research in the area of hurricane variability, you knew, showed no reliable upward trend in the frequency or intensity of hurricanes. Not in the Atlantic basin. Not in any other basin.

To add to the utter incomprehensibility of the press conference, the IPCC itself, in both 1995 and 2001, had found no global warming signal in the hurricane record. And until your new work would come out, in 2007, the IPCC would not have a new analysis on which to base a change of findings.

To stop the press conference, or at least stop any misunderstandings that might come out of it, you contacted Dr. Trenberth prior to the media event. You prepared a synopsis for him that brought him up to date on the state of knowledge about hurricane formation. To your amazement, he simply dismissed your concerns. The press conference proceeded.

And what a press conference it was! Hurricanes had been all over the news that summer. Global warming was the obvious culprit -- only a fool or an oil-industry lobbyist, the press made clear, could ignore the link between what seemed to be ever increasing hurricane activity and ever increasing global warming. The press conference didn't disappoint them. The climate change experts at hand all confirmed the news that the public had been primed to hear: Global warming was causing hurricanes. This judgement from the scientists made headlines around the world, just as it was intended to do. What better way to cast global warming as catastrophic than to make hurricanes its poster child?

You wanted to right this outrageous wrong, this mockery that was made of your scientific field. You wrote top IPCC officials, imploring: "Where is the science, the refereed publications, that substantiate these pronouncements? What studies are being alluded to that have shown a connection between observed warming trends on the earth and long-term trends in tropical cyclone activity? As far as I know, there are none." But no one in the IPCC leadership showed the slightest concern for the science. The IPCC's overriding preoccupation, it soon sunk in, lay in capitalizing on the publicity opportunity that the hurricane season presented.

You then asked the IPCC leadership for assurances that your work for the IPCC's 2007 report would be true to science: "[Dr. Trenberth] seems to have already come to the conclusion that global warming has altered hurricane activity and has publicly stated so. This does not reflect the consensus within the hurricane research community. ... Thus I would like assurance that what will be included in the IPCC report will reflect the best available information and the consensus within the scientific community most expert on the specific topic."

The assurance didn't come. What did come was the realization that the IPCC was corrupting science. This you could not be a party to. You then resigned, in an open letter to the scientific community laying out your reasons.

Next year, the IPCC will come out with its "Fourth Assessment Report," and for the first time in a decade, you will not be writing its section on hurricanes. That task will be left to the successor that Dr. Trenberth chose. As part of his responsibility, he will need to explain why -- despite all expectations -- the 2006 hurricane year was so unexpectedly light, and at the historical average for the past 150 years.

Source

[sasquatch]

Pinoy64

Your info is 100% as far as I am concerned (others may disagree but they are wrong). Trouble is terms like calving and the concept of pressures increasing may be a little difficult for the the science community and global warmers to accept and the average global warmest certainly will have no idea what you are talking about.

This is perhaps indicative of the ignorance in the science community. Zoologist who minored in Marx and Engels inevitably do not understand that sorta thing. Most global warmers are just parroting the MSM BS and haven't a clue.

A Canadian built and operated radar satelite has sufficient resolution to be used to track ice movements in the Antarctic ICECAP and has detected velocities as high as 3000 ft/year in spots. Basically it resembles ocean currents in slow motion.

I shall endeaver to locate a link.....unless the IPCC inquisitors/enforcers have shut it down.

[lurk]

You know another thing I never understood about the Kyoto accord? Canada seems among the countries required to sacrifice the most, right? Well let's pretend every prophecy of horror we ever heard about Global Warming comes true.

Things get warmer. I'm OK with that so far. Sea leavels go up. This means what exactly to me? Some rich people with property on the Vancouver waterfront will lose some bucks? Better that than I should pay 2 bucks a litre on gas, pay an added heating fuel cost, take a $1,000 dollar income tax increase, and possibly lose my job, paying for Kyoto, if you ask me. They've got insurance.

My point is even if every scary thing happens that Al Gore promises, Canada will do all right, yet they want us to foot the bill to stop this thing, why? Because some village in the Maldives is going to have to move a few miles inland? No thanks.

[sasquatch]

Will rising seas submerge islands? Let's answer this question by looking at the Maldive Islands. The Maldives, 1,200 low-lying islands in the Indian Ocean, currently sit only one or two meters above sea level. Their 300,000 people and infrastructure are so exposed the INQUA made the Maldives a priority research target.
They found that the sea level around the Maldives has been "oscillating" over the past 5,000 years, rising and falling in response to short-term local events.
There have been four periods when the sea level was higher than today: About 3,000 years ago, the ocean was 1.1to 1.2 meters above current sea level. (The very warm Climate Optimum ended about 5,000 years ago.) Then 2,700 years ago, the Indian Ocean was just a bit higher than today, at 0.1 to 0.2 meters above current levels. At the peak of the Medieval Warming (950-1300), the sea level was 0.5 to 0.6 meters higher than today.
There are clear indications of a recent fall in the Maldives sea level. Nils Axel Morner himself led a research team that concluded that the sea level "experienced a general fall of the order of 20-30 cm." since 1970. The most surprising finding was that the Indian Ocean was higher than today between 1900 and 1970, and that sea level has fallen since then---in the middle of a warming period. The team sees no reason, either historically or currently, to expect the Maldives to become flooded in the near future.

Lester R. Brown is an agricultural economist who has been wrongly predicting massive world famines since the 1960's----during a period when the high yield rice and wheat crops of the green revolution were sharply increasing per capita world food production.

In 2001, Brown claimed that the first World was unfairly flooding the Pacific Islands through global warming caused by the greenhouse gases of it's power plants.
TUVALU (mid way between Australia and Hawaii)---Geologically, Tuvalu is in a risky position. It's atolls rest on volcanic rock that is slowly subsiding into the sea. On top of the sinking Rock is coral. which grows slowly, and whose lower layers die off as they sink too far into the Ocean to get sunlight. It does seem unlikely that Tuvalu could survive the rapid sea level rise forecast by the activists.
In 2004, Brown said that the oceans rose 8-12 inches in the last century and could rise another 18 by 2100.
Since 1993, however, the TOPEX/POSEIDON satellite radars found that Tuvalu's sea levels have fallen 4 inches over a decade.
A second, independent record confirms the satellite measurement: the modern tide guages installed on Tuvalu in 1978. They show that a strong El Nino in 1997-1998 dropped Tuvalu's sea level by about a foot. The El Nino/Southern Oscillation is a natural periodic phenomenon that makes no difference at all in long term sea level trends.
The director of Australia's National Tidal Facility, Wolfgang Scherer, says, "One definitive statement we can make is that there is no indication based on observations that sea level is accelerating."

[proudtobeadp]

The only global warming going on is the rubbing of greedy hands together to make billions of bucks anyway they can using fear as a factor to what is really a cyclical period this earth goes through year after year for billions of years now.

I am amazed at what the media and those who make money fear mongering are willing to do to shake that tree ever harder. Our earth according to earth sciences goes through warming and cooling stages that are cyclical as it goes around the sun in its eliptical orbit that changes virtually all the time and will really change if the earth gets hit by another astroid as it has been struck over and over and over again.

What is happening now is cyclical. If anybody should be doing anything is increase funding for earthwatch against asteroids and be funding coming up with a plan to do what with them when one comes hurtling right on our orbit path and how to move it so there is no mass extinctions as there have been on this earth every 65 to 100 million years. According to scientists and statisticians that sort of scene apparently is somewhat overdue!

In the meantime, enjoy the weather, it can get warmer, it will get colder and ice ages can and do happen in lifetimes.

[sasquatch]

Welcome proudtobeadp

Yes winterpeg is the armpit of the world.

Your comments on this global warming swindel are on the money and I share your concern about near-earth-objects.

[sasquatch]

Pinoy64
Second,, oil is known to come from rotten vegetation,,,why is it found in the arctic ocean ??

Actually that is coal. Petroleum originates from a totally different process.

In the primordial seas, tiny critters call diatoms existed in numbers making the surface layer resemble soup. These still are with us today----any mud puddle---they exist in a profusion and infinite variety. I knew a guy who collected them on slides.

Anyhow when these diatoms died, a continuous process like most life-forms, their bodies settle to the bottom and collected like snow drifts around coral reefs. Over lain by mud they decomposed---resulting in each producing a tiny drop of petroleum---trapped in the formation.

The bodies of diatoms have a tiny very fragile calcium skeleton. Under pressure this formed the limestone, chalk and marble deposits depending upon the pressure.

If little or no pressure was present the remains are called Diatomacious earth. This friable porous material is the best filter material for water treatment. It is the sand you sell to Arabs.

The dynamic earth with plates of granite floating about on a sea of basalt has resulted in continental drift. Add to this is the matter that at one point the North pole was in the Pacific. This twist was possibly the result of a close encounter.

This deposits fossils in unlikely places.....although in times past climate was very different than today. You get coal deposits in Antarctica and Svalbard (Spitzbergen).

Much is made of certain Pacific Islands being drowned by AGW caused sea level rise. Pacific islands are largely volcanic and volcanic ash settles/compacts over time resulting in low islands sinking into the sea. Also the techonically active Pacific Plate is constantly raising or sinking islands.

Pacific Islands are generally divided into two categories---high islands (Hawaii, Pelilieu) or low islands Truk, Tuvalu, Bikini, Enowetok). These are coral deposits on seamounts...submerged volcanoes.

Low islands are either sinking or raising and a good Tsunami wave can wipe them out----the high islands are usually capable of volcanic activity and can blow up under your feet (Krakatoa).

[sasquatch]

Pinoy64
But at the end of the day the real question is,,,,,,is global warming real and are humans creating it ?? My feeling is NO on both counts. But will it ever be proven Only after a lot of time has passed.

Yes I would agree. Indeed this may take a couple of generations to resolve definitively. Like yourself, I specualate that future generations will wonder about the causation behind this wild agenda----like we now wonder what really was behind the Salem Witch trials.

Specialists have speculated that the histeria of Salem was induced by spoiled grain (ergot poisoning).

[sasquatch]

It would appear that only the CO2 AGW fan club/MSM are keeping this Climate Change/KYOTO thing alive.

KYOTO is disappearing in a whimper not a bang.

The recent hoopla about the G8 conference in Germany, complete with speculation over Harper's alleged role in "bridging the gap" between the US and Europe over clamate change.

We saw a lot of coverage of Harper boarding the plane , with his retinue........and then silence......it's as if the G* conference never happened. Is this another "inconvenient truth"

[lurk]

More specifically it went like this, right?

HEILIGENDAMM, Germany - Prime Minister Stephen Harper has hailed an agreement by G8 leaders as an "important first step" toward a long-term global plan for fighting climate change, but environmentalists accuse rich nations of caving to U.S. pressure to defer meaningful action.

After months of negotiations that came to a head here this week, leaders of the eight industrialized countries have committed to "substantial" global reductions in the greenhouse gases believed to cause global warming.

Because of resistance by the United States, the summit declaration does not include precise targets or timelines.

In announcing the deal Thursday, German Chancellor Angel Merkel described it as a "turning point," but Merkel, who as host of the summit had staked her reputation on the deal, was forced to abandon her proposed target of halving global emissions by 2050.

Environmentalists promptly dismissed the deal as toothless.

However, Harper was cautiously optimistic the setting of a global target - even one that isn't quantified - could set the stage for a successor agreement to the Kyoto Protocol, which expires in 2012.

More

Hey, just in case you haven't seen them, I found a couple more good sites on the anti-GW side. They're hard to find, because they get buried under the pro side, so we have to share them.

Links to articles on the skeptics arguement.

More such links